专访著名策展人吕澎——不用毛笔宣纸，装置艺术也很“水墨文章”
An Exclusive Interview with LvPeng: There is More to Traditional Chinese Painting than Simply a Brush and Paper
著名艺术史家、策展人吕澎 LvPeng: Renowned art historian and exhibition curator
水墨文章（第八回）当代水墨研究系列展展厅实拍 A photo from the 8thContemporary Ink Art Research Exhibition
极目新闻记者 徐颖
摄影记者 肖颢
通讯员 李朝霞
实习生 陈静怡
翻译 许洲，魏袁，卫拉（湖北大学）
Jimu News Reporter: Xu Ying
Photo: Xiao Hao
Correspondent: Li Zhaoxia,
Intern:Chen Jingyi
Translators: Xu Zhou, Wei Yuan, Lisa M. K. (Hubei University)
吕澎先生在艺术界大名鼎鼎。
LvPeng has earned a huge reputation in the art circles.
他曾策划过两届威尼斯双年展平行展，将中国优秀艺术家的作品带到国际大展中；曾担任中国首个双年展“1992年广州双年展”的艺术主持；还创办了“那特艺术学院”，为全球的艺术爱好者提供艺术专业在线课程。
He has curated the Parallel Exhibition of the Venice Biennaletwice, takingoutstandingChinese artworksto the international arena, hosted the 1992 Guangzhou Biennale,China’s first biennale, and founded L-ART University,which is intended toprovide professional online courses for art enthusiasts worldwide.
近日，武汉美术馆原创大展——“溪山清远的当代逻辑”水墨文章（第八回）当代水墨研究系列展，在武汉美术馆（琴台馆）开展。展览邀请吕澎担任策展人。5月24日，就艺术相关的热门话题，这位著名艺术史家、策展人接受了极目新闻记者的专访。
Recently, the 8thContemporary Ink Art Research Exhibition—Contemporary Logic of a Pure Remote Viewwas held at Wuhan Art Museum(Qintai). Lvwasinvited as curatorfor this exhibition. On May 24 in an exclusive interview with Jimu News, he shared his views on trending issues in the art industry.
穿越八百年与马可·波罗对话
ATalkthrough 800 yearswith Marco Polo
记者：每一个艺术工作者心中都有一个威尼斯双年展。您曾参加威尼斯双年展平行展的策划工作，可以跟我们分享一下这个经历吗？
Reporter: Everyperson in the art industry would be ecstatic to be a part of the Venice Biennale. Would you mind sharing with us your experience curatingthisbiennale?
吕澎：我策划过两届威尼斯双年展平行展。
LvPeng: I have curated the biennaletwiceso far.
一次是2009年，担任第53届威尼斯双年展特别邀请展“给马可·波罗的礼物”策展人，联合策展人是意大利的著名策展人阿基莱·伯尼托·奥利瓦。
The first was in 2009, when I worked for the Special Invitational Exhibition of the 53rd Venice Biennale “A Gift to Marco Polo” with the renowned Italian curator,Achille Bonito Oliva.
八百年前，出身于意大利威尼斯商人家庭的马可·波罗随同父亲与叔父到达中国，他在中国居留了17年。外国人通过马可·波罗的《游记》了解了中国。而今八百年过去，在马可·波罗的故乡，我是想用中国艺术向西方观众呈现他们不了解的中国的今天。这些作品包括：艺术家用装置表达中国传统文化的核心要素“礼”，艺术家用中国传统园林表达的历史与现实的迷宫，以及艺术家用作品与八百年前马可·波罗对话，等等。
Marco Polo, born in aVenetian merchant family, arrived in Chinawith his father and uncle800 years ago.He stayedherefor 17 yearsand wrote the book The Travels of Macro Polo, through which foreigners became acquainted withChina.Now 800 years later, in the hometown of Marco Polo, I wanted toshow the Western audience the real China in this modern age using Chinese art.The works included: the artists’ use of installations to express the core element of traditional Chinese culture, Li(a Confucian concept often referring to rites or norms that should guide human conduct); the expression of history and reality through traditional Chinese gardens;and the artists' use of artwork to dialogue with Marco Polo from eight hundred years ago, and more.
第二次是2013年，担任第55届威尼斯双年展特别邀请展“历史之路”策展人，联合策展人也是奥利瓦。1993年奥利瓦第一次把中国艺术家带到国外去时所做的展览题目叫“东方之路”，而我们这次的展览叫“历史之路”，是对“东方之路”的一种回应。30多年来，中国艺术家参加威尼斯双年展的频率渐渐提高，往来的国家也越来越多，威尼斯双年展就好比一个全球化的门户，为中国的艺术家们提供了参考，让他们自由地与世界沟通、更加开阔自己的视野。
The second was in 2013,whenI served asthecurator of the special exhibition “The Roadof History”atthe 55th Venice Biennale, and the co-curator was again Oliva.In 1993, when he first took Chinese artists abroad, the title of the exhibition at the time was “The Roadof the East”, whileour exhibitionnowwas called “The Roadof History”, which was sort of a response tothe former. The past three decades have witnesseda gradual increase inthefrequency of Chinese artists participating in the Venice Biennale. Consequently,the countries involved have also become more diverse. The Venice Biennale is like a global gateway, providing Chinese artists a reference point, allowing them to interact freely with the world and broaden their horizons.
中国艺术的辨识度不能靠“符号化”
The recognition of Chinese art cannot rely on “symbolization”
记者：我们看到这次“水墨文章”大展还有装置艺术。有一些艺术家和批评家会觉得，谈水墨离不开中国画的材料、技法、气韵生动的审美等，认为脱离了这些，就不是中国水墨，而是当代艺术。您怎么看待这个问题？
Reporter: We saw that this “Ink Art” exhibition also includes installation art. Some artists and critics may feel that ink art cannot be separated from the materials, techniques, and vivid aesthetic of traditional Chinese painting. They believe that without these elements, it is not Chinese ink art, but contemporary art. How do you view this issue?
吕澎：如果说中国水墨只能在平面上创作，那已经把传统箍死了。如果要看这样的作品，那就去博物馆去看，去看看美术馆的典藏。今天，我们要的是有传统背景的新的艺术。本质上，我们是要艺术，而不是要是传统还是当代的概念。所以，用各种材料和手段去创作中国水墨艺术，也是近些年才被艺术界、批评界接受的。
LvPeng: If Chinese ink painting can only be created on a flat surface, then we have already confined the tradition. If you want to see such works, go to museums and art galleries to see their collections. Today, what we want is traditionally inspired modern art. Essentially, what we want is art, not the concept of traditional or contemporary. That is why using various materials and methods to create Chinese ink art has only been accepted by the art circles and critics in recent years.
比如，这次展览中，艺术家用时光形成的蚕丝与一段木头，做成了一件装置作品，虽然没有使用传统水墨的毛笔、宣纸等材料，传达出的观念却是很中国的。很多我们认为不是中国水墨的艺术，换一个西方人的眼光来看，他一眼就能认出来这是中国人的艺术。因为从材料、技法、意境中反映出的一种精神气质，与他们的文化是截然不同的。
For example, in this exhibition, an artist created an installation piece using silk formed overtime and a piece of wood. Although traditional Chinese ink materials such as brushes and rice paper were not used, the concept conveyed showcasesChinese style. Many art forms that we may not consider as Chinese ink art can be easily recognized as Chinese art by a Westerner, as they can perceive the distinct virtues reflected in the materials, techniques, and artistic conception that is fundamentally different from their own culture.
审校：孙喆 彭媛苑
Reviser：Sun Zhe Peng Yuanyuan